From inside the 1228, it appears that so it exact same Clemence along with her partner Nicholas was in fact selected for infant custody from Joanna and Llywelyn's child Susanna (old about fourteen?). is apparently towards child is elevated in a secure and you will safe ecosystem toward window of opportunity for a much better degree. the outcome was in fact getting remaining off their particular. The latest custodial offer are of the King Henry III, half-cousin in order to Joanna and you may 1 / 2 of-sibling so you can Susanna, yet the decree entitled Susanna, Henry's ‘niece' and you can Joanna, Henry's ‘sister'.'
A concern today poses by itself. That you are able to response is you to Clemence's father, Philip le Boteler was French, as opposed to English. It actually was quite common at the time for people to hang properties on the each party of Channel. Which ed his dilies than in English group during this time.
The sole publication in which I've found a reference to Clemence Pinel – wife regarding Henry Pinel (aside from Charles Cawley inside Wikipedia) is in Alison Weir's ‘England's Regal Family members: The entire Genealogy (London, 1989).' Which guide try detailed from the one to genealogist because ‘not too fully annotated.' My very own trawl from family history message boards discover scant reference for the Pinel family, together with Clemence's spouse Henry Pinel. Multiple records suggest that Joanna was the newest daughter away from Henry Pinel and his spouse Clemence, however, zero source, capable of being looked, are provided. I'm for this reason tempted to discount this woman of next research. I will getting very incorrect.
In the event that Joanna was this new daughter regarding Clemence ce Boteler, out of, apparently a keen English house, how can we determine what Joanna is actually doing when you look at the France when King John delivered having their inside the 1203?
Clemence de Fougers was the latest cousin of Richard de Hommet, Constable off Normandy find korean women more attractive, and you will Geoffrey de Fougeres. Their own dad was William du Fougers. I have no go out of beginning (otherwise death) away from Clemence, but she was first married before 1200 (zero big date offered) to Alan de Dinan, and is common sufficient to wed in October 1200, because the her next husband, Ranulph de- Blundeville, Earl of Chester and you can Vicomte d'Avranches, recently divorced (relationship annulled?) out-of Constance away from Brittany.
In 1189, aged seventeen, Ranulph had been married to Constance of Brittany the widow of Henry 11 ‘s son Geoffrey, and the mother of Arthur of Brittany with whom King John contested the succession. Henry did not trust the Countess and wanted her married to a magnate he could trust. The marriage gave Ranulph control of the earldom of Richmond and the duchy of Brittany, but it was not a success (see subject 6. below). The couple had no issue and they separated. It was rumoured you to Earl Ranulph separated Constance for having got an event having King John!
Definitely, perform which Clemence end up being the mom regarding Joanna, she’d also be the fresh new granny off Susanna, though there is not any cause to think that the more youthful Joanna understood, now, there try a household dating, in the event that
Because Clemence de- Fougers try child and you may brother regarding Constables out-of Normandy, It’s consider likely that John, Number away from Mortain, when you look at the Normandy, understood of their own [and perhaps *knew* their own, prior to their own matrimony so you can Ranulph]. A virtually link with John you are going to explain what would seem a very advantageous 2nd marriage having Clemence to Ranulph.
Ranulph, six th Earl from Chester not, try an effective baron therefore beggars belief, at least for me personally, which he would have acknowledged a wedding so you can a lady who had got a known fling and you can a subsequent child because of the John, Count from Mortain specific 10 years in earlier times. Like given the rumours nearby a possible affair ranging from John and you can 1st wife Constance!